The bad side (long)

Cami · Joined: 11 Jun 2005 Posts: 28

Hey my dear people,
it is almost half past 3 AM here and I just got off the phone with a good friend, we talked over something that has been a big topic in my life (and hers, which is why she called me): frustration with dancing (we spend so much time talking about the good things of dancing, I thought why not comment the negative part of it).

It is not so much that dancing in frustrating, more that everything around dancing is quite frustrating. That is the reason my mother told me to quit doing it full time, and I chose to go away from it.

OK I hope no one misunderstands me, I love love love dancing, love putting on my shoes (no matter which) and just dance off, I love the feeling I get when I manage to do something new in dancing and I dearly remember every first time: the first time I was allowed first row for a routine, the first time I put on my pointes, the first time I did 15 fouettes in a row... but I also remember all the bad first times: the first time a teacher told me I should start losing weight (at age 8!), the first time I was unable to do a jump, because I was afraid to hurt my ancles and was forced to do so, hurting myself, the first time my toenails came lose, the first time I broke down after several hours of exercise and no food, so I could keep up with the others in technique and thin figure.
This only regards people who have started extremely early to dance and who were on a professional route, I think! Because if you chose to dance yourself then you can chose not to, but I never chose to and by the time I was not so sure about it anymore I was afraid what others would think.

My friend is in 4rth grade, upper level ballet (we have 4 years of elementary ballet, then 5 years of upper level ballet and then you can choose to do the highest grade of ballet there is, but you mainly need it to teach, not to perform), she is 18 and like most people who take ballet to that level quit school at 16, she is doing a few subjects privately, so she will eventually be able to study at university level if she wanted to, but will finish "school" at around 20, opposed to normal kids finishing at 17 or 18.
She, like me, loves to dance, but circumstances are so hard sometimes, not just the figure thing (she is naturally very thin), but there is such a strong ambiente of competitiveness (that a word?). No one is really your friend, because inside you are always fighting to be better at some point. Then there is always the knowledge that even if you get to the highest heights (which would be prima ballerina at some great company) you will fall afterwards and in the end at the age of 40, probably earlier, your feet, your back and your hip will be ruined and you will need to stop. At the very best you will be able to open a school and teach, at the worst... I don't know.

I know most people on this board don't dance full time (I am not sure if anyone does), and therefore I guess most people won't understand, but I just wanted somewhere to go with this (my non dancer friends totally do not understand it).
Often I think if this is what we want the most, why is it one of the few jobs where people actually die from anorexia and spend a fair amount of time crying?
When I saw the movie "Center stage" I had the feeling I knew exactly what they were living through. When I was 16 (which is I think when I saw the movie) I spend at least 4 hours a day at my dance school (I had a daily class of ballet 90 min., a daily class of either contemporary or music 90min., and at least one of jazz, funky, etc.... another 90 min.). Like for the kids in that movie dancing was often more of a tough job than of an actual hobby...
Ok, just felt inspired by my friend and thought we could need a place to vent... I certainly did!
Thank you for "listening", the ones that made it this far ;),
love, Cami

DancerBee · Joined: 25 Jun 2005 Posts: 35 Location: Missouri

I don't dance full time, but I do understand what you're saying. Even before I started dancing (I'm a late starter) I struggled with maintaining a thin figure, because even though I've always been thin I saw myself as needing to stay that way or be thinner. I've never truly been anorexic, but have certainly (and still do) lower calorie amounts and face obsession with a need to exercise daily no matter how I feel.
The idea that thin is most important is a twisted idea. I know from dealing with the consuming thoughts of food and calories and how to make sure you don't eat too much. Yes, dancers need to be fit. But it's much healthier for them to be a weight and build that their doctor would approve, eat healthy meals and enough, and exercise in a non-obsessive manner. Too much emphasis is put on eating less and dancing more in the dance world. Well, nutritionally, you're only hurting your body if you exercise more and don't increase food amounts too. If you're fed up with this too, then rid yourself of the idea that YOU have to be what someone else thinks you should. You don't have to identify with how thin you are--that isn't the identity that will last. Take it from someone who understands, if you put your identity in the numbers on the scales or the figure in the mirror, you'll be disappointed and crying day after day when you can't attain your (or someone else's for you) goal.
Be yourself. Love dancing. Forget the competition and the highest honors and the slimmest waist. Dancing is an art straight from heaven, a beautiful way of expression and movement. Whenever any passion of yours becomes a chore, a hassle, a health threat, or "just a job," then you've lost the essence of dancing. You've lost the purpose of dancing. You've lost WHY you started to dance in the first place.
If this is what's happening, then I don't blame you for wanting to take a step back. Reduce the amount of classes you take. Ignore the teachers telling you that your already healthy or thin frame needs to be smaller. Dance when YOU want to, HOW you want to, to the music YOU want to. Dance from inside your heart that deep down has a passion for dancing; don't dance from the heart that has forgotten what dance is about.
This happens to too many people. I think too many people get too hung up on everyone else's goals that they forget their own. I don't want to be the principal in a company more than I want to just dance. I don't want to have every lead in every musical or every solo in every recital more than I want to dance for the pure joy.
Rediscover dance. Rediscover yourself. Rediscover the joy, and most of all, the purpose of dancing.
God bless you! May joy be brought back to your dancing!

Kuriin · Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 56 Location: In my imagination

I dance full time and I sympathize with you greatly. I think/know teaching or choreographing is what most dancers do when they reach that certain age where the body can take no more. It's not necessarily bad, but it can be kind of saddening. All those years of dancing can only be used for teaching and choreographing. But, teaching has its awards too.

edit: Being thin is *not* so much of a twisted idea, especially for ballet. If you wish to do pas de deux, you need to be thin (for the women) and exceptionally strong (for the men).

DancerBee · Joined: 25 Jun 2005 Posts: 35 Location: Missouri

I agree that a thin frame is desirable, obviously. I'm just saying that the push on girls to be so thin that they become anorexic is over the top. If it's unhealthily thin, or just skin and bones, then that is only bad for the dancer-and speaking of injuries and bodies not being able to take it anymore, if girls are pushed to the point of eating disorders, I can tell you their bodies will burn out a lot more quickly. There's a fine line between thin and too thin.

Going on to teach or choreograph isn't so bad, I agree. But I do wish that all could keep dancing forever! :)

Medira · Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 3:06 pm Post subject:

I used to dance full time. I had reached a point, when I was 16/17, where I was dancing 7 days a week for at least 6 hours at a time. And I hated it. I absolutely, positively hated it. My aunt was my dance teacher and it always seemed that I was never good enough to meet her standards. Then again, I was never her favourite. That always made a huge difference. I was tall (5'9") and thin (110lbs.) but it still wasn't enough. I wasn't the way she felt I should be. I was in tears every night and I kept telling myself that I needed to be better. I should be better. I needed to stop being such a disappointment. Even when I performed without obvious mistake, it was never good enough. I would get torn apart after the performance and it shot my confidence to pieces. I could never quit though because I couldn't "let my family down". My parents knew I was unhappy and they were supportive of me quitting, but I never felt that I could.

After a non-dance related accident put me out of commission for a while, I realized just how much I missed dance. It was the environment that I didn't miss. So, once I got cleared by my doctor and physiotherapist to get out and exercise again, I started ballroom. (I decided to try ballroom because I didn't think it would be as much impact and strain on my recovering back injury than the others) Just getting out on that dance floor again for my first lesson was exhiliarating. I hadn't realized just how much I missed it until I was back in that environment again.

Sometimes you just need to pull back and take a look at things from the outside. It wasn't dance itself that made me so unhappy, it was the pressure and the environment that I was in.

Cami · Joined: 11 Jun 2005 Posts: 28

Hey Dancerbee and Kuriin,
I am happy you replied to my post.
I also think, like dancerbee said, that there is a thin line between thin and too thin and I have seen teachers push their students into anorexic behaviour!
I am studying a medicine related subject right now and I have learned that some bodies tend to be more or less fat, depending on every persons own metabolism. If your body needs a certain amount of food a day you can't take it down just because the weight is too high! And some people just can't lose those few pounds extra because the body doesn't use those fat deposits (for some reason) and pushing more and more diets is just not going to help! Just make people unhappy!
Even not being anorexic there were years in ballet where I just lost the joy of eating! Because every bite seemed to mean to me that I was never going to be lifted up, that I was going to be pushed farther into the background, etc... I never stopped eating completely and never threw up in a bulimic fashion, but just after stopping the extreme ballet academy I suddenly noticed I had spent years of my life forcing food down without feeling the joy of it!! And food can be so great! I had barely eaten any icecream with my friends, or shared candy bars, or played marshmallow games, just because sugar = bad in my mind!

My friend is very thin, she is tall though (which was always my lucky spot while dancing, I am pretty tiny, just about 5 feet and therefore even when not thinnest I was fairly light) and obviously has a lot of muscle (muscle is more heavy than fat) and it is hard for her to find a pas de deux partner... at least no one can ask you to stop growing!!

Kuriin, of course being thin is great! I mean not just for dancing, also in your daily life! You find normal clothes, you look good in almost everything, you have less health problems! But the problem is the pushiness of thinness in ballet and related topics (like gymnastics or ice skating). Plus the problems that ensue when you don't eat enough, like the many problems girls have with immature bodies after years of too little food, problems with months often years without a period in girls and women, etc...
And I agree that teaching and choreographing is not bad, but often I think that spending years of your life (often up to 6 or 7) almost exclusively in a dancing school, having next to no friends outside the biz, with no security of getting into a company or so, then audition hard for every tiny role etc... it is often so hard and I know more than one dancer who clearly regrets having stopped "normal" life to be "only" a dancer, because there is many good moments, but when bad moments weigh more than good ones....
OK, I think it is great to talk about this with people who have also thought about it, love, Cami

DancerBee · Joined: 25 Jun 2005 Posts: 35 Location: Missouri

Medira- I'm so happy that you've discovered the joy of dancing again! That's what it is all about!

If you can be a full time dancer and still love it just as much, then that's awesome. Otherwise, I think a break here and there just to step back and enjoy dancing is perfectly okay.

Cami- I know what you mean about the joy of eating being gone. I remember when I was in middle school and elementary school, eating was fun, and I didn't even think about calories or fat or anything. Then suddenly I decided that my stick thin figure needed to stay that way or shrink. Now it's still hard to enjoy dessert or NOT be worried about going out to eat or to parties because of food.
It's a messed up mental thing. Anorexia or eating disorders aren't so much the physical manifestation as the psychological. It's controlling and consuming, and I wish that certain sports didn't push for it so hard.
I think this whole subject basically comes down to balance. With eating- there needs to be a balance of eating healthy and still enjoying fun foods instead of being obsessive and consumed by worries of weight With figure- there should be balance of being healthily slender and muscular but not merely skin and bones or rolls of fat. With dancing- there should be a balance between dancing as a profession/work and dancing for the joy and love of dancing itself.

nanae · Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 11:41 pm Post subject:

I have never faced a problem with thinness. I am always happy to gain a little bit of weight because I am just naturally skinny and my weight needs to catch up with how much I've been growing. But I've faced other problems with dance. I was a late starter for dance and it's always been a struggle for my family to get me to classes and rehearsals and pay for it all. I help as much as I can with paying for lessons but I don't have a steady job. I live in the middle of nowhere and have to commute to classes.
But dance is a passion in my life and something I could not do without. The work is intense and takes so much of you that you have to be totally dedicated to it. There is more to dance than the dream of being great, the knowledge of greatness not lasting. Dance is an otherworldlyness. Dance is a gift from God. To dance is to become something so incredible. It's magical. Without dance I wouldn't have a driving force in my life. With dance I am alive. I have a dream and a passion and an existence so complete and awesome. It is such a gift from God.
When dance becomes something other than this you need to step back and review what you're doing and why you are doing it. Dance for the joy of dancing. That is it. That's all you need. No matter where you are in your dance life dance only for the joy of dancing. It's that simple. No buts ands or ifs about it. When you dance even the stars are within reach.

DancerBee · Joined: 25 Jun 2005 Posts: 35 Location: Missouri

Amen, Nanae! I agree with all you said! Dance is most definitely a beautiful gift from God...that's why I think it's sad when the joy is taken out of it. It is wonderful that you're able to see gaining a few pounds as a good thing. I'm really trying to work through that now, because everyone says I'm really skinny. It's hard to sort what you know is true from the lie you see in the mirror.
I once heard excellence defined as "doing better than you've ever done before." Notice the YOU in there. Not doing better than anyone else. Not doing the best. Doing your best. Excellence is striving to be the best you can be, the best God created you to be. That's true excellence. Today people are either trying to take the cheap, quick way to be good or thinking that excellence is killing yourself to be THE best.
I too am a late starter in dance. Believe me, I understand the complications. It is so hard to have started late and want a career in dance. But it can be done! my mom didn't start till she was 16 and went on to dance professionally for a summer and choreograph for 10 years. Just don't buy into taking the cheap way. As my mom's told me and as I've seen by watching other dancers, learn the technique and the basics even if it takes longer to get to more complicated combinations and moves. In the long run, it'll be so much better if you have the technique and foundation rather than an assortment of sloppy combinations.
Good luck dancing! I hope that God provides transportation and funds for you to keep dancing!

angel winns · Joined: 11 Jun 2005 Posts: 129 Location: Southern CA

Well, I have friends who are strictly in ballet and go through that. Ballet companies are so strict. But I do all genres of dance. I do take ballet six days a week in the summer and four days a week during competition season but it's for technique. I have to stay in shape and focus on eating healthy but our studio has a very healthy attitude and is very careful about all that....no pressure. My mom would pull me out otherwise. I'm only ten but I try to eat not less, but very healthy. I have to be strong to do the level of dance that I do. I have to be able to have a lot of endurance...esspecially for tap solos....it's like running 10 miles or something...have to have lots of water when i'm finished. but anyways it's up to me to make the right choices, i'm not pressured at all. and when i want a treat i have one.

Medira · Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 3:52 pm Post subject:

angel winns wrote: I try to eat not less, but very healthy
Quoted for effect.

I couldn't have said it better myself, Angel. Most adults out there don't understand this concept whether they're dancers or not. Wonderful post!